catapult magazine

what do you think about debt? is having any debt sinful? is it even possible to live in north american society without carrying loads of debt?

I believe carrying debt and continuing to accumulate debt without making a concerted, focused effort to pay it off is sinful. I believe it is entirely possible to live in our society without debt. I know it’s possible because we do it. Whatever goes on the charge card is paid off each month. If we can’t afford to pay it off like that, we can’t afford to buy it.

A home mortgage, of course, kind of screws up my statement. I think owning a home and assuming debt for a home that’s well within your means is an investment, not a senseless debt like a credit card bill.

how can debt be sinful? give me the passage that says that. so buying a house — possibly your biggest debt is sin? or is that 18.03 that you can pay on your credit card. i would find this midly offensive if i was in debt. i do my best to stay out. but i have been before — and you know what, i got out of it. does that make me born again in debt free kingdom?

so credit card are the “axis of evil” or “the tool of the devil”? maybe. i mean often they have been called this. and maybe if someone doent know how to use it — then they are. but the whole idea of debt being sinful — big disagreement. i think to say that is wrong — so then are you being a sinner because you have job that you love and where your gifts lie, but it’s doesnt pay well. as long as you are giving your allotted amount to do the Lord’s work — what is the problem.

i think we are getting at a deeper issue — greediness — do you get yoursefl in debt because you are greedy. that one, my friends, has been answered. biblically.

Reread Annie’s post please eddie. I think you missed her point. Knowingly racking up huge bill’s without the active will or ability to pay those off is a sin. (I hope I’m getting you straight Anne). I agree with that.
My wife and I just bought a house. We have more student loan debt than our annual income. I don’t think that’s sinful because, again, it’s an investment. Sometimes it costs money to become what God wants you to become. The problem comes in when you spend more money than you have in order to have more than God gave you. I think you began touching on that at the end eddie.

then, leading further down the road, what do you do with folks who can’t afford to pay off their credit card bills every month? or folks who have bought into the trap of american consumerism (you can have it NOW)? or people who find themselves in situations they can’t handle because of unforeseen circumstances (loss of job, death in the family, etc.)?

it seems that, although the bible discusses money more than anything else, we have very few structures in place as a church to educate people about how to handle money responsibly or to help our brothers and sisters who find themselves in a crummy situation because of debt.

wouldn’t it be amazing if some system of accountability were in place in the christian community to help with financial matters? a system that involved educating people about responsible financial stewardship, but also helped people recover from debt-ridden situations. maybe a one-time, no-strings-attached grant up to $20,000 to help people out of debt, on the condition that they need to have gone through some educational course and continue some sort of involvement in an accountability group.

i don’t know. i’m just throwing stuff out there. i’m just frustrated by the number of people i know who are paralyzed because of debt. they can’t do what God wants them to do with their lives because they are slaves to monthly payments. and i think it would be incredible to link more wealthy christians with christians in financial trouble. wouldn’t that be a unique display of christian community?

Yes, Norbert. You interpreted my post correctly. Blindly and repeatedly tossing out the VISA card just to own more stuff with no thought or responsibility to eliminating a balance is poor stewardship of one’s money.

I like the idea of helping Christians get out of debt and coupling that with education on finances to prevent them from getting back into debt. Isn’t there a program like this already? It sounds like a familiar idea … I’ll do some research and see.

This is kind of on-topic and kind of off-topic, but what about churches who run in the red? Sometimes it can’t be helped. Other times, it seems like church councils make silly decisions with church money that I can’t believe they’d make with their “own” money. As a church member going to a church that is quickly depleting its long-term savings, I’m starting to wonder when – and if – I stop giving to this particular “charity” and turn my money elsewhere. Or do I continue to give to my church while they make poor spending decisions and run God’s house in a poor manner? What’s my responsibility here?

That’s a tough question too Anne. Amy and I were members of a church in Florida that has, since we left, ceased to exist. A bulk of the problem (obviously not all) was financial.
Shouldn’t the deacons and others in positions of fiscal responsibility by fiscally responsible. It seems a bit too obvious to even mention, but I was puzzled by our Florida church’s decisions and I continue to be puzzled by the ones in our new community. I’ve heard statistics that marriages disintegrate because of money more than anything else. If the church is the bride of God and is being stupid with resources, is that putting the relationship in jeopardy? Am I taking the metaphor too far?

I think that’s a great metaphor, Norbert. I never thought of it that way. I think that it’s easy for people to not view a church budget as “real” money. Many people view a church as an institution that will always exist, regardless of finances, as long as there are people to gather and worship. This is correct, but a bit naive.

We nominate our deacons and elders and then draw lots, letting God make the ultimate decision as to who gets to be our church leaders. I like this method. And how do you really judge if someone is fiscally responsible? People I would have thought would be tightwads have proven to be completely out to lunch when it comes to church budgets. Does the Bible talk about churches and money at all?