catapult magazine

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discussion

shallowness and depth

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BBC
Dec 02 2002
03:35 pm

“A shallow mind is a sin against God. A man who does not struggle is a fool.”

—Chaim Potok

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dan
Dec 02 2002
04:45 pm

I’m not comfortable with that at all. Isn’t there room for all types of people in the world including some who maintain more of their childhood naivite and innocence into adulthood. What about retarded people — are they sinning against God? Certainly there are some good things to be learned from Potok, but why choose this quote?

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Norbert
Dec 02 2002
06:29 pm

I don’t think being naive or retarded means one is incapable of higher level thought. I could think about a sunflower for hours and that would be far from shallow. Simple thoughts are not necessarily shallow thoughts.

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dan
Dec 02 2002
07:40 pm

What’s a shallow thought then?

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Norbert
Dec 03 2002
04:15 am

I guess I see the differentiation daily. If you spend time in a high school guys locker room hearing wagers about who’s going to “bang” the new cheerleader first, or outside a girls bathroom listening to them slam the girl with two-year-old jeans, shallow thoughts seem kind of obvious.
I remember helping a girl named Kelly at a Special Olympics event. As I led her from event to event she kept saying “this is great! this is great!”. To me, that’s a simple thought, but the importance and depth behind it was astounding. For an hour she was completely enrapt in how neat it was for her to compete and see her friends compete, whether they won or not. It was a simple thought, but far from shallow.

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kristinmarie
Dec 03 2002
05:44 am

I too am extremely uncomfortable with this quote. I suppose that it depends on what the definition of “shallow mind” is, but I know many, many Christians who are content to live simply, without challenging themselves in any way or stretching their knowledge of the world or of God. And while this is frustrating to see and deal with, I really don’t think that it’s helpful to label them as sinners.

When talking to my dad about this issue, he pointed out that, in his experience, even those who have no ambition but to coast blissfully through life are always confronted with some sort of unexpected struggle. It seems to me that even the most “simple-minded” person has his or her own personal struggles that are not easily discerned, and those Christians who are more mature in their faith ought not to pass judgment on the weak, but accept and encourage and respect them as brothers and sisters.

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dan
Dec 03 2002
06:57 am

kristinmarie, thank you for articulating that so nicely. Norbert, the way you are differentiating between deep and shallow is closely related to morality isn’t it? Is it possible to have a good thought that is “shallow”? More likely that a bad thought would be “deep,” eh? Like the protagonist in “Crime and Punishment” who has the deep thought that it might not be so bad to kill someone, and acts on it. Can anybody give an example of a good thought that is shallow?

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mrsanniep
Dec 03 2002
12:55 pm

Here’s my stab at a good, “shallow” thought: “Man, my butt looks good in these jeans.” :)

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dan
Dec 03 2002
01:00 pm

I’m sitting on pins and needles to find out if Norbert will say that’s a deep thought . . .

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Norbert
Dec 03 2002
01:57 pm

It’s been a really really long time since I’ve seen Anne’s butt. Does it? Give us a call next time you’re in the area Anne and we can check eachother out.
Dan, let me rephrase the locker room conversation. You can listen to them saying “My, didn’t God bless the new cheerleader with fantastic physical beauty?” and we’ll trade the girl’s conversation to “Man these jeans make my butt look great!”

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dan
Dec 03 2002
04:01 pm

According to the quote, this type of talk is a sin against God. Apparently there is no good shallow. Maybe Chaim Potok could wax more eloquent about butts in jeans, but personally I prefer mrsanniep’s version.