Geoff3,
Yes, you are absolutely correct about starting where you are, and that is what I am doing, working with a group of artists here in NYC that meets weekly (250 attend) for the last five years. Actually it is from amongst this active group that I refined my ideas, and then now I am starting a church that will be similar to this group, but take everything further given the more complete nature of church vs. parachurch.
My whole plan is to just renew artists here in NYC already working, both Artists of faith, and those we can lead to faith. Then let it all trickle down to the greater society. I believe if we can establish a new movement towards a greater understanding of art – that both the dysfunctional church, and the dysfunctional world can be blessed.
I am not as well read as you guys, so I don’t know Seerveld and I have only breifly read Rookmaker. As for the whole T=G=B trinity that Grant referenced, I don’t know about that, and so I use these terms with some ignorance.
I developed the idea myself as a working artist that there seem to be two areas of art – the area of beauty, where you just love looking/hearing – it appeals to something in you and is relatively universal in its appeal. Then the area of truth, which has more to do with ideas, and or showing the ugly side of man, which in understanding brings goodness. ie. it is good to know what is bad. There is another side of this which is important and that is the way art connects human beings. Either a direct connection thruogh the work from the artist to the viewer/listener or a mass connection as the audience takes it in simultaneously and there is some joy in the shared community experience. because of these variations on the idea of truth, in my specific theology I say art is a glimpse at the true soul of humanity – because for me that leaves it open to all the variations – the true ugly soul, the true good soul, the true individual soul that is seen by another individual soul, and the true soul of the shared human experience in audences. It has a lot to do with embracing our humanity. I think the main area Contemp. Christians have missed, is in understanding that they are human, and that a full and expanding faith makes them more complete humans. The goal is not to be less human – as some mistakenly de facto live out. The goal is to be a godly human. Jesus is right now a human (in glorified form, and also fully God, but still human – he never de-incarnated) So, the idea is Christians in their separation of sacred and secular inadvertently began to deny their humanity and that lead to their not liking art that spoke of humanness. That is why they have such a hard time accepting anything that comes from a secular viewpoint. Instead we are simply human, and accept any good thing offered from another human. We use wisdom, and spiritual discernment to know what is good and what is bad. This problem cannot be underestimated – I know many Christians that the first thing they ask with any book or anything that has content; is it christian?
So, although if I was more well read, maybe I would have avoided the TGB thing (to be honest, I thought I was being a little cool and sophisticated by using it), even though, up to this point I have appreciated those concepts. I’ll have to read more on that. Either way, if you read my original post, you will see it is a very tertiary thing, and not at the heart of the idea.
Maybe you guys can post your top 5 books reading list to educate me.
Jeff
Kursonis
Apr 18 2005
06:08 pm
Geoff3,
Yes, you are absolutely correct about starting where you are, and that is what I am doing, working with a group of artists here in NYC that meets weekly (250 attend) for the last five years. Actually it is from amongst this active group that I refined my ideas, and then now I am starting a church that will be similar to this group, but take everything further given the more complete nature of church vs. parachurch.
My whole plan is to just renew artists here in NYC already working, both Artists of faith, and those we can lead to faith. Then let it all trickle down to the greater society. I believe if we can establish a new movement towards a greater understanding of art – that both the dysfunctional church, and the dysfunctional world can be blessed.
I am not as well read as you guys, so I don’t know Seerveld and I have only breifly read Rookmaker. As for the whole T=G=B trinity that Grant referenced, I don’t know about that, and so I use these terms with some ignorance.
I developed the idea myself as a working artist that there seem to be two areas of art – the area of beauty, where you just love looking/hearing – it appeals to something in you and is relatively universal in its appeal. Then the area of truth, which has more to do with ideas, and or showing the ugly side of man, which in understanding brings goodness. ie. it is good to know what is bad. There is another side of this which is important and that is the way art connects human beings. Either a direct connection thruogh the work from the artist to the viewer/listener or a mass connection as the audience takes it in simultaneously and there is some joy in the shared community experience. because of these variations on the idea of truth, in my specific theology I say art is a glimpse at the true soul of humanity – because for me that leaves it open to all the variations – the true ugly soul, the true good soul, the true individual soul that is seen by another individual soul, and the true soul of the shared human experience in audences. It has a lot to do with embracing our humanity. I think the main area Contemp. Christians have missed, is in understanding that they are human, and that a full and expanding faith makes them more complete humans. The goal is not to be less human – as some mistakenly de facto live out. The goal is to be a godly human. Jesus is right now a human (in glorified form, and also fully God, but still human – he never de-incarnated) So, the idea is Christians in their separation of sacred and secular inadvertently began to deny their humanity and that lead to their not liking art that spoke of humanness. That is why they have such a hard time accepting anything that comes from a secular viewpoint. Instead we are simply human, and accept any good thing offered from another human. We use wisdom, and spiritual discernment to know what is good and what is bad. This problem cannot be underestimated – I know many Christians that the first thing they ask with any book or anything that has content; is it christian?
So, although if I was more well read, maybe I would have avoided the TGB thing (to be honest, I thought I was being a little cool and sophisticated by using it), even though, up to this point I have appreciated those concepts. I’ll have to read more on that. Either way, if you read my original post, you will see it is a very tertiary thing, and not at the heart of the idea.
Maybe you guys can post your top 5 books reading list to educate me.
Jeff