catapult magazine

You have no idea how much your approval means to me. You really have no idea.

I am still trying, although sometimes it does not feel that way : )

So let’s say that a rich person gives all her material possessions to the poor. Now the formerly poor person (or people) must deal with the embarrassment of wealth. Has anything been accomplished?

Let’s say another rich person gives all his material possessions to the poor. Is he then free of all responsibility regarding material things and their distribution? Must he still be concerned about those who have little since he himself has little? Is it his job to find a way to take money from the other rich who greedily hoard it, and then distribute it to those who have little?

Interesting point, Jason.

Kinda gives you the idea that the point of that story is not so much helping the poor as it is helping the rich. That is to say, possession of a large number amount of material riches seems a far bigger problem than non-possession of them. Does this bear out in other parts of the Bible? It seems to me that Jesus is often concerned about people’s spiritual state, but seldom about thier material needs (in fact, the feeding of the five thousand seems almost an off-hand kind of thing — as in, oh, yeah you need some food. Okay here. Now lets get on with the important stuff. Maybe our problem is that we have always been putting too much emphasis on material welath, when, in fact, it isn’t that important.

BBC I understand that your family is splitting a house with another family. That seems to be a good way of avoiding one major possession. What have other people done to cut down what they have physically to focus on what they have spiritually. I’ve had a good time looking at these posts but I’m anxious to see how to move from theory to practice. It surely isn’t just give it all away is it? How should we steward our wealth practically and realistically in a Walmart society?
Norbert

I have a friend that has found great wisdom in this topic, he says it basically like this: The idea of giving away one’s money in the story of the rich young rule is two fold. One, to stop the idolitry that he has toward his wealth. Two, to place him in a situation that he can see what wealth and poverty truly are and can stand against the opressive forces of wealth.
In this discussion we have left out the later part of what Jesus told the rich young rule, and that was to follow him. First braking the chains of his opressive forces and then following the one that is the one that died for the opressed. There are many warning signs given through out the bible that show how wealth is not bad, but it is how it is used in incorrectly and in an opressive ways that is wrong.
One of the practical ways to view this is, you can look at the clothes you wear. I am sure that all of us have clothes that we buy that were made by sweat shops where the people were greatly opressed. The question within this is thus are we to be fruggle with our spending of money or wise of where we spend it. Job was considered wise due to the way that he spent his money, not in his lacking or having.
I find that the idea of wealth is to remove the desire or the opressive force of it that we carry and then follow Jesus’s actions and enter into relationships with the least of these and standing along side them. (1 John 2:15-17, 3:17-20) First John, I have found as a book to continuously go to for guidance on my own wealth.
Giving his money away was only the begin to what Jesus told the Rich young ruler.

this helps a bit. I’ve always struggled with greed and jealousy. I see friends who are done with their student loans and I’m jealous. Friends who have bought a house and I’m jealous. Friends starting to invest and I’m jealous. I know that’s wrong.
The thing is I guess I’m just starting to realize this parallel. My sister and her husband were struggling severely to pay bills. My brother-in-laws solution was to give 10% of their meager (used relatively) earnings to the church. Suddenly they had no problem paying bills. Learning this, Amy (my wife) and I started tithing and have had similar results. I suppose focusing on necessities (real necessities) instead of a new car or Play Station will cut back on my level of greed.
It is tough though isn’t it. We’ve recently taken a leap of faith in moving to Wisconsin without jobs because we felt that God wanted us here. For some reason that seemed easier than putting my finances and wealth in God’s hands. Maybe I’m just too Dutch.
Any similar experiences? “Common” miracles?

We share a house and a car with another family and I bike to work — but to be honest, these choices have more to do with my chosen profession (I teach high school for a Christian school) and its level of salary than it does with any great spirituality on our part. I think what has helped me more on this issue is living without a TV. It wasn’t until I had lived without the thing for a few years that I realized how TV had trained me to seek material solutions to all my problems. The longer we have lived without a TV, the more we have realized that happiness does not come wrapped in a snickers bar and fun cannot only be had at Great America, but rather the best parts of life are talking with friends or biking through the woods.

Thift stores help, I think. As does a book called The Frugal Zealot. It’s kind of funny. I am partly Dutch and partly Scots, and both those ethnic groups come in for a lot of good-natured ribbing for thier tight-fistedness regarding money — yet a lot of my generation has lost any ties to that frugal nature.

Having said that, though, My wife and I still go out to eat a fair amount and we spend a lot of money on downtown theater. I think, even without a TV, it is hard to live a non-commercial life. Sigh.

why does tithing “work”?

my husband and i have been struggling financially for a while now. since we’re not willing to find meaningless work just to make money, we’ll probably continue to struggle. but we, like Norb and Amy, have found that when we tithe, we are more likely to be able to pay our bills on time. i feel very strongly about giving back to God what he has only given us on loan, but i find myself sometimes thinking almost superstitiously about our tithe. how is it possible to have pure motives?

on another note, at the beginning of this year, rob and i returned from a trip motivated to sell our expensive new car and “simplify” by buying a used car. we found a $1,250 car within a week and put the Jetta up for sale. we were enthusiastic about finally being at the point where we could distance ourselves enough from a car we really liked in order to sell it, simplify, reduce our debt. we had though about selling it before, but reasoned our way out of it. six months later, we were still sitting on a $15,000 car that wouldn’t sell and we had to sell the used car. it made me think that sometimes all God requires of us is the ability to let go, to distance ourselves from our possessions and to BE ABLE to give them up. i don’t know if this is what you would call a “common miracle,” but it certainly was a lesson in searching for God’s will. and it’s a lesson that is manifesting itself in other parts of our lives as well.

My family were missionaries in Haiti. I had an shift in economic perspecitve as a child being in the poorest third world country in the Western hemisphere for several years. And it has never changed.

By 1st and 2nd world standards I don’t have much. All my worldly possessions, save my car, a table and chairs can fit into 10 boxes—5 of which are books. I have no debt. I don’t own a home. I have no savings. I’ve lived hand to mouth my whole life. My superfulous expenses are taking friends out to eat, books and art supplies. Sometimes I hate it. Sometimes I love it. Most of the time I don’t think about it. I’m not sure I’m wise. I have had plenty tell me I’m down right foolish.

By 3rd world standards, I’m rich. I struggle with what is wealth, and how to come to a place of rest in lifestyle, especially living in this country.

To be honest, I still feel I have too much. And that hand of guilt stays on me, all the time. It never allows me to truly enjoy an incredible meal, and I love fine dining. I love the expression of creativity in the presentation. I love the usage of color and the taste. But when that $100.00 tab rests at my elbow, I cringe. I could have bought a month’s worth of food for that. I could have supported a missionary with that. I could have donated it to Compassion International and fed 8 children for 2 months on that…. I wrestle with it, but justify the expense for the experience. And we all do that with whatever pleasures we enjoy. Is that bad?

I have a chronic disease of giving everything away, and often times it has left me in a financial bind wondering how I was going to pay my own bills. I give out of a strange sense of compassion for those I cannot get out of my mind, namely my Haitian brothers and sisters and fellow missionaries, but also those who, even in this country, seem less fortunate. My suffering with them in terms of living a minimal existence and giving to them, is a silliness that has perpelxed me for a very long time. But I’m coming to understand that it isn’t silliness, but a strange combination of brokenness and obedience.

What is it that we need to answer in terms of poverty? Is it really that everyone in the world needs to eventually become a 1st world culture, everyone needs the basic food, clothes and shelter, everyone needs a car and a 40 hour work week? Who’s poor? Maybe the deeper question is what is our end?

My own material poverty has created a deep understanding of the desperation of the poor, and sometimes that desperation frightens and controls me. It has also created a deep understanding of the faithfulness of God.

I’ve questioned the definition of His faithfulness. We like to stick these terms in boxes and say that the faithfulness of God looks like such and such. The Word says not to worry about tomorrow, and that the heavenly Father knows what you need and that He will provide those things. But there remains those believers who live in war torn countries, exist in solitary cells and live in economies of such poverty that their way of life will never allow them clean water let alone a meal. And God remains God. He is always faithful. Where is the break down in our thinking?

If God is faithful when we have extravagance and faithful when we have nothing, then “meeting our needs” must be something other than physical. He knows we need clothes, food and shelter, but those needs are not met on a regular basis for so many people in so many cultures that I’ve stopped believing that those things are what Jesus was really talking about.

I do believe that wealth is a matter of the heart and a matter of the Kingdom. I don’t believe having much or having little is the right question to ask. The Apostle Paul said he rejoiced in little and in much, in sickness and in health, in suffering and in freedom. All of it was the same to him. He was on to something. I see this same spirit in Jesus. His disciples had to remind Him to eat, and he would answer “My bread is to do the will of the Father.” The material was far less important to Him than the immaterial. And that is what I’m coming to for myself in greater measure as I’ve been working through some really tough stuff.

Jim Elliot said once (to the effect) “One is wise not to offer what was not one’s to give away in the first place.” Meaning, we are not our own. None of this, not even ourselves, is ours.

Perhaps the best question to ask ourselves in terms of physical wealth and privelege is "What has it done to my wealth in Christ Jesus? Is my life focused upon things which will burn, rust and rot or is my focus upon things eternal? As I focus on the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus said everything would be added unto me. That which is added may be poverty, sickness, material possession, joy or sorrow, but all those things, I trust as they come, will bring me closer to the Image of Christ. I may be a millionaire, I may be a farmer in China. The Kingdom of God is still the same.

I believe as I seek unity with Christ, that I will be unified with the body of Christ. And as that happens, their burdens are my burdens. Their sorrows my sorrows, and joys my joys. I cannot focus upon the Kingdom of Heaven and miss eternal wealth. I cannot focus upon the Kingdom of God and be unaware of the suffering around me. I cannot be in unity with Christ and lack awareness of His Spirit within which says, “Give this, keep that.” And that conversation with Spirit will be different for all of us—but most certainly all to His glory.

I think Kirsten has the right thought in this discussion, concluding that it is holding possession loosely, realizing none of it belongs to us anyway, that includes our person, time, energy and money. And I think the principle of tithing is tied into that truth as well for all those things. Tithing honors the God who owns it all. It reminds you that He can do as He wills. And keeping 90% of that wealth perhaps is what He wills, but there may come a day when you know He is asking you to exist with 10% and give the 90%. Whatever He requires is acceptable, for slaves cannot say to their masters, enough is enough.

He is faithful.

Recent discussion on this thread has made me think that maybe God isn’t quite so hung up on the poor as we think. Jenn raises the point that all that we have is not our own. Well said. It seems to me that often in the Bible, God is encouraging us to simplify our lives not so much to help the poor, but to help ourselves. I think of the story of the perfume on Jesus’s feet and His response, “the poor you will always have with you.” I don’t mean to minimize the plight of the poor at all, but one of the things i find amazing about the Christian faith is that it frees me from the crushing guilt about that. My responsibility toward the poor springs from my thankfulness to God, not from the sense that I can solve the problem of the poor. I can’t Period. God is the only one who can do that. So my giving and my concern for the poor comes from my desire to do what God asks. And i think God asks less for the fact that it will solve the problem, but more for the fact that it will make me happier if I don’t put my faith in personal possessions.

On that note, Jenn, maybe the painting you do is more like that alabaster jar of perfume than anything else. Make beautiful art and do not feel guilty about that.

I hope that doesn’t sound uncaring. I don’t think jesus meant it that way.

i have to go. It is dinner time.