catapult magazine

*cino’s mission statement reads: “culture is not optional seeks to help Christians practically apply their faith to all aspects of their lives by learning and serving as a community of believers.” The worlds “CRC” or “Calvinism” are nowhere to be found but this identity seems to be implicitly understood by most involved.

Is *cino intended to be a forum for the Dutch Reformed community? At the moment it seems to be so. Obviously there are advantages such as insider vocabulary, worldview similarities, and possibility of funding from Calvinist foundations and such. In its current function the site acts as a catalyst for CRC dialogue and community. Is this the goal?

If so, might the word “Christian” in the mission statement need to be qualified? Or is the goal to eventually expand the community to include Catholics, Lutherans, and Pentecostals?

Thanks wscott. This is exactly why I asked the question. As long as participants in this forum refer to HD, CRC, Wilhemina Peppermints, modes of being, the “grey hymnal”, etc. without explaining them, the discussion remains insider-talk. This is not necessarily bad, but if it is not desired, then it will take a concerted effort on the part of participants to open up the dialogue to others.

Warning: in a discussion about the dominance of the CRC on this website, I’m talking most specifically to people and using language from that tradition. I apologize.

Well, I don’t think we have to worry too much about *cino or anything else retaining its "Dutch"ness. The CRC is dissolving. Members and even whole congregations leave either because its too liberal or its too conservative.
In the past two decades and to some extent even now, the CRC has bled a great deal of memebers to a more doctrinal mindset. It seems today that now more of the opposite is going on. This sort of broad American Evangelical media culture has had a huge effect on the CRC (I don’t know much about the RCA so I can’t say), and a lot of younger people would 30 years ago would have just stayed in the denomination now want to be like the rest of the mainstream Christian America.
I’ve had many discussions around the table with my family about this. Even my father has said straight out that he thinks the CRC will cease to exist in 50 to 70 years. I’m inclined to agree with him. The hardcore memebers of the denomination are dying off and the children are splintering off. That’s inevitable though; all ethnic religions transplanted in a new country eventually die off.
I’ve had mixed feeling about this. Some people will say good ridence and I can understand that because yeah, it has been pretty hegemonic, but for me personally, this is where i came from and to realize that your roots are slowly decomposing, it’s a bit upsetting. Plus, this movement towards this sort of national christianity worries me a bit. Great, I’m glad that we are all acknowledging our similarities in our communion with Christ, but it feels like Christianity in america is becoming one big blob. There;s something to be said about different cultures.
Anyway, on the other hand, I am not that upset about it because the CRC was formed back in the mid 1800’s by a group of Dutch immigrants that were a part of the Afschiding (apologies for the spelling; my Dutch is not that good), which was bascially a reactionary pietistic break-off denomination. The offical state church of the Netherlands was becoming more and more humanistic, so it’s understandable why that would happen, but the areas of the country where this happened was mostly rural and poor, and these are the people that eventually emigrated. Well, those transplanted people didn’t change much in the past century and a half, content to keep to themselves and dance around in wooden shoes once a year. Back in the Netherlands, Abrham Kuyper did his thing in the begining of the 20th century and post WWII immigrants, most of whom went to Canada, were influenced by him and also imported people like Dooyweerd. That’s why Canada has a Christian Labor Association, the Institute for Christian Studies, and started the APJ/CPJ thing.
I think this is the aspect of reformed thinking that those of us on this board who come from the CRC really cling to. Dordt taught it and it has really influenced a lot of people in this disscussion, and well it should. In fact, a testament to the demise of the CRC is evident in the identity crisis and enrollment problems Dordt is having at the moment. Anyway, that’s a different topic. So the question is will this Kuyperian tradition survive the death of the CRC, a denomination whose very roots are pietistic and insulary?

I appreciate dvdschp’s history of the CRC and would love to devote a topic of discussion to issues such as this without people complaining that the site is exclusive. I think one group should be allowed their jargon just as much as the next. I’m not ready to tell the black community they need to stop speaking “jive” because it makes me feel like I don’t belong.

Just to reassure many of you, *cino is not an exclusively CRC ministry. It just so happens that reformed-minded people like a site that carries a reformational perspective…and they tell their reformed-minded friends about it. This seems natural: professional basketball teams may seem biased toward tall people, hockey teams may seem to prefer Canadians rather than African-Americans, but this is just the way it goes sometimes.

another one (the first one?) bites the dust.

It’s been fun.
This is probably my last post.

Goodnight.

I’ve been gone for a week due to internet-related difficulties and I find that wscott has quit posting all-together!

what’s the meaning of this?

Hello everyone…just wanted to clear a few things up.

I decided to stop posting at CINO for a couple of reasons.

1. I was looking for an intellectually stimulating discussion experience (which CINO was!) that was Christian in a very general sense. I was surprised to find out that many of the members of CINO were “…reformed-minded people [that] like a site that carries a reformational perspective…” I’m not against the Reformed Church in any way (I am continuing to learn more about it). I guess you could say that I’m a “non-reformed minded” person who likes a site that carries a more general perspective.

2. I think that this “general perspective” type site exists…so I am trying to find it. I will continue to frequent the page now and then to read articles and see what’s going on in the discussion. I will probably not post much more because I would like to direct that time at another site.

CINO is an impressive web page.
The discussion process is among the best that I’ve seen.
Keep up the good work.

cya l8r.
w.scott

What is a more “general perspective”?

It seems that many of the people who contribute to *cino share the conviction that Christians ought to live faithfully in all areas of life. This should not just be a Reformed perspective, a perspective reserved for a Dutch minority. This conviction can be gained from Scripture itself. So I would hope the general perspective of Christians from all backgrounds would include this focus on serving God in all corners of His world.

Also, it is not *cino’s goal to create a stronghold for Reformed-minded people (though *cino will most likely become that for many people). *cino merely assumes there are people out there who are ready, willing and able to take their faith into music, movies, politics, business, bio-engineering etc. We know from experience that there are reformed-minded people like this and we are certain there are more in the evangelical community who feel it’s wrong to hide from the cultural battles taking place in God’s world. I think it would be a detriment to *cino to lose people like wscott because such people show that wanting to engage culture as a Christian is not just a “dutch reformed” thing.

I agree with grant, it is best to have more people representing different denominations, it makes for fabulous discussion. I think *cino needs more people like wscott and I don’t think that it’s deliberately turning people off to it. The fact is that the news about the *cino website is mainly spread through people in christian reformed communities. I knew someone that knew the creators and now I see posters advertising it in places like Dordt College’s campus (obviously a place with reformed backgrounds), and this is not a bad thing nor is it wrong. However, it does, logically, add to what kind of backgrounds you get coming on the site. Perhaps we could put some posters in various churches of different denominational backgrounds…what do you think?

I wonder whether the solution to this problem (and I have become convinced because of wscott’s dramatic withdrawl that it is a problem) is for people to stop talking about their denomination or tradition OR whether the solution is for other tradtitions to become more vocal. I guess I resist the notion that an open forum (and I stand by my earlier statement about openness — anyone in the world may join cino — provided you have access to the internet) must restrict its members references to their own experiences and tradtitions in order to remain open. It seems to me that being more sensitive to this issue would be a good thing, but I don’t understand why I should not bring my church experiences into the discussion.

Interesting comments about the demise of the Christian Reformed denomination too. Not sure I’d agree with those doomsayers either. I live in South Holland, Illinois. Many people have left this community in the last fifteen years because there are people of varied racial backgrounds moving in. I have heard comments from lost of those who have left about how South Holland cannot continue as a vital, active, safe community because of its new racial makeup. We moved here seven years ago because we liked the diversity. Despite the talk of doom, the community seems to have stabilized and is a wonderful place to live. I suspect the same will be true of the CRC. It will change in some ways (and high time too), but it will continue to be vital and active.

Or can’t I say that?