*culture is not optional

It goes without saying that the USA, despite its many positive beliefs, like freedom of speech, association and others, as enshrined in the Civil Rights Act, is predominantly a culture dominated by the White people! That what has opened my eyes to this fact are bare statistics. As regards all the negative factors like unemloyment, low average income, imprisonment etc., the minorities or the Black people score invariably higher, than the rest! In my country, racism exists in the form of a caste system, some considered superior, others inferior. I can discern a haeling or a reconciliatory trend among the young generation, raised by the use of PCs and cellphones! Thanks!

Ivor, I think that one must be careful to distinguish correlation from causation. Just because one group is disproportionately under represented in any demographic measurement does not necessarily mean that such a situation is due to discrimination. There can be many cultural factors that explain such statistics. I always find it interesting when “people of color” are referred to, that it never means Asians. Why is that? They are not Caucasian. Yet, they are disproportionately “over represented”, if such a thing exists, in almost any measure of cultural success. What seems to be forbidden from public discourse, unless one is themselves a person of colour, is the actual cultural causes for the facts that you have cited.

Here’s a decent article debunking the “model minority” myth often offered in these conversations: “How whites use Asians to further anti-black racism.” It speaks directly to your claims of Asian cultural success, Jeff, and suggests that such claims are not rooted in good analysis.

Also, at least two things really bother me about this (very common) line of thinking.

First, it completely ignores history and seems to suggest that human beings are not connected in any meaningful way to what has happened before us. Other than the socioeconomic implications of such thinking, this seems profoundly unbiblical to me. Christians understand that we are part of an ongoing narrative that connects us to the people and stories that have gone before use, both in Scripture and throughout history. Such a connection has profound implications for how we understand our relationship with God and how we discern the Spirit’s movement incarnated before us.

Second, it allows those of us in a dominant culture position to delude ourselves into thinking that nothing is wrong. And if nothing is wrong, then we do not need to change—which seems a little too convenient to me.

Robert,

I am simply interested in knowing the Truth. I am not interested in agendas, be they from white racists attempting to justify anti-black sentiments, or race-industry activists promoting identity-based victim hood.

I first learned of the Asian statistics not from a White male, but from a Black economist, Thomas Sowell. I have heard some strained logic from race-industry activists, but I do not think that I have as yet heard anyone call Thomas Sowell a racist. More on “motivation” below.

Further, who said that Asians were without their own unique cultural problems and thus a “Model Minority”?

With that said, I would agree that some of the statistics require closer scrutiny. The article to which you referred and others less polemical, point out some statistical details that require further investigation. The beginning of the article certainly establishes that Asians are not immune from prejudicial discrimination!

I have some questions regarding his statistics and we could spend time delving into the details if you like but it might be more profitable to focus on statistics that were not discussed in this article and which I believe are very important cultural indicators.

Nationally, children in single parent families are as follows:
White 23%
Black 65%
Hispanic 37%
Asian 16%

Nationally, children in poverty are as follows:
White 11
Black 35
Hispanic 27
Asian 12

Nationally, the deaths per 100,000 by homicide are as follows:
White 7
Black 72
Hispanic 32
Asian 10

While Asians are not some mythological “model minority”, there is no question that their cultural health in areas that significantly impact how one gets on in the world is quite disparate from African Americans. Hopefully, I do not have to prove that Asians have also been at the receiving end of prejudicial discrimination. Can you see why one can honestly question whether past historical or contemporary prejudicial discrimination is the primary cause for this disparity?

And this brings me to my second point. What I find particularly objectionable in the article and perhaps by implication in your response, is the assumption that anyone who brings up Asian cultural indicators is by definition motivated by a desire to further anti-black racism. As I stated above, I first saw these types of statistics as reported by Thomas Sowell, a Black economist. This goes directly to a sentence in my original post. If one even suggests that we need to consider that there might be other historical and sociological causes for the disparity in cultural health, other than past or present discrimination, there is this knee-jerk response in which the motivation of the dissenter is apparently immediately known. I would suggest that as long as this is the case, there is little chance for progress in the conversation.

“First, it completely ignores history and seems to suggest that human beings are not connected in any meaningful way to what has happened before us. Other than the socioeconomic implications of such thinking, this seems profoundly unbiblical to me. Christians understand that we are part of an ongoing narrative that connects us to the people and stories that have gone before use, both in Scripture and throughout history. Such a connection has profound implications for how we understand our relationship with God and how we discern the Spirit’s movement incarnated before us.”

I completely agree with the part starting with Christians understand… but I do not understand the first part and how it relates to my point. Could you please concretize this statement and flesh it out? I do not understand how pointing out that it is possible that discrimination may not be the primary cause for the unhealthy state within the Black community means that one is ignoring history. If anything, such a question wants to explore history in more depth. What are the other historical factors that come into play? What is their impact?

My main point is that it is quite possible that irrational prejudicial discrimination is not the primary cause for the cultural quagmire that the African American community finds itself in. I still believe that the facts show that Asians who were historically exposed to prejudicial discrimination, are culturally healthier in several key areas compared to Blacks (and Whites as well) thus indicating that there are other cultural/sociological causes that need to be explored. My motivation for pointing this out is not 1) to justify anti-black racism, or 2) to justify a lack of concern or need for addressing the situation.

“Second, it allows those of us in a dominant culture position to delude ourselves into thinking that nothing is wrong. And if nothing is wrong, then we do not need to change—which seems a little too convenient to me.”

Again, I am interested in the Truth. I have no interest in deluding myself or others into thinking that nothing is wrong. Further, it is not just White males who question the prevailing race-industry assumptions. Clearly, the cultural indicators show that something is very wrong. The question is: what are the real causes of this situation? Until we allow honest questions without questioning motives, there will be no real discussion.

Wow! You’ve covered a lot of ground here. I’ll try to get to everything as succinctly as I can.

If we as Christians are going to be able to bring the biblical vision of shalom to bear in the public sphere on issues such as racism, we need to be able to discern good analysis of facts from bad. Doing so requires us to examine the worldviews of analysts, departing ways where necessary. I don’t necessarily think this is questioning motives per se (although I think you’re right in bringing it up, as it’s a fine line and I may have crossed it earlier); I think this is the hard work of examining where our ideas are coming from over and against a transformative Christian vision.

I’m cursorily aware of Thomas Sowell’s work and, given his body of work, he seems to be a religious devotee of capitalism. While this certainly isn’t meant to dismiss him and his work entirely, it does cast a pall of suspicion on his presuppositions when analyzing data. Indeed, reviews of his work often point out his selective use of facts to prove his point. Because of this, Sowell employs the “Model minority” myth, using selective data in his analysis, to castigate the African American community. I brought up the myth because it’s a fairly common argument in this conversation and it’s unintentionally harmful. It is widely dismissed, most pointedly by many in the Asian American community:

While superficially complimentary to Asian Americans, the real purpose and effect of this portrayal is to celebrate the status quo in race relations. First, by over-emphasizing Asian American success, it de-emphasizes the problems Asian Americans continue to face from racial discrimination in all areas of public and private life. Second, by misrepresenting Asian American success as proof that America provides equal opportunities for those who conform and work hard, it excuses American society from careful scrutiny on issues of race in general, and on the persistence of racism against Asian Americans in particular.

This leads to my primary point about history in my previous post. The reason Sowell’s analysis doesn’t work is that it seems to completely ignore the history of people groups. Asian American culture is shaped by a completely different history than African American culture, making the two communities significantly different in their cultural manifestations. The African American experience in the United States is completely different from any other people group—250 years of slavery, another 100 after that of legal discrimination and oppression, and, finally, 40 years of attempting to deal with racism. 350 years of systemic oppression has a way of seeping into the culture of our country (systems) and of the African American community.

Attempts at healing need to take this history into account in a very serious way. Both African American culture and U.S. culture needs to understand how we’ve been shaped by the past so that we can offer appropriate, meaningful and reconciling paths forward.

Robert,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate the discussion.

First, let me say that I myself disagree with Mr. Sowell’s one dimensional approach to economics. I believe that his view contains partial truths but is not biblically holistic. We really need someone to integrate the Austrian school, Chester/Belloc distributism (and Catholic Social Teaching), E.F. Schumacher (Small is Beautiful), Polanyi, Wendell Berry and even a touch of Ron Sider (gasp!). Further, I brought up Sowell in order to dispel the race-industry myth that bringing attention to Asian statistics is a White ploy. I did find the article that you referenced at bnet quite informative and well written.

I do stand by the statistics that I listed above. These are available from several trusted sources. There is simply no denying that African American culture has some serious problems in areas that significantly affect the prospects of future generations. Compared to Asians, this is quite disproportionate.

There is also no denying that even though discriminated against, Asian Americans have a completely different cultural and sociological history from Blacks in this country. I really like your last two paragraphs and very much agree. Thanks for fleshing that out.

However, my question for you is this. If slavery, segregation, and racial injustice is the primary historical factor that explains the serious cultural state of African Americans, then why have these important indicators and others gotten disproportionately worse than the culture at large, at the precise time that freedom, equality of opportunity, and justice have vastly improved? Is it psychological and sociological inertia? Is it possible that after 40 years, we are really still talking about the Moynihan Report?

I would appreciate it if you might recommend some reading, preferably not polemical, that addresses this overall topic.

Jeff,

You can call me Rob; I really need to change that in my profile! Robert just sounds so formal … :)

A quick response for now (as today is a bit hectic for me) … I don’t disagree with the statistics you mentioned and I don’t disagree that Asian Americans are discriminated against in various ways. In fact, one of the reasons I bring up the “Model Minority” myth is that it unintentionally diminishes those issues and pits different minority groups against one another.

I’m simply trying to underline the point that different cultural histories lead to different cultural problems for different cultural groups. As such, different conversations are necessary in each case and different transformational paths forward are necessary for each.

More later (including a few resources) … thanks for the good conversation!

Rob,

I am sure that you are quite busy, but I am truly interested in seeing your recommendations.

Also, I have heard the following from many whites and I wonder how you would respond.

“We agree that it is racist for whites to vote against Obama primarily because he is black, so then why is it not racist for blacks to vote for Obama primarily because he is black.?”

Ahh, yes. I’ve been meaning to get to that and then it got lost in the shuffle that is an over-committed life. :)

One book I found particularly helpful when first learning about these issues is Set Free: A Journey Toward Solidarity Against Racism by Iris de Leon-Hartshorn, Tobin Miller Shearer and Regina Shands Stoltzfus—all of whom are Mennonites.

I’ve also found Martin Luther King, Jr.‘s writings very challenging, specifically “Letter from Birmingham City Jail.” Many other pieces in Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King Jr. are well-worth reading. Of course, King’s work is set in the Civil Rights era, which is markedly different than our own.

I think a lot of my thoughts on this subject, though, have been formed in relationship with others. Through conversations and shared experiences with folks looking to love their neighbor in difficult circumstances, my analysis of our current situation has taken shape. One of those friends, JoAnn Mundy, wrote a great resource list we published in Do Justice: A Social Justice Road Map. Perhaps that list might be helpful, too.