catapult magazine

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Hope for Hip Hop

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grant
Jun 16 2003
07:47 pm

I am by no means an expert on or participant in hip hop culture, but a few months ago my wife called me away from brushing my teeth to see a most amazing performance on Conan O’Brian’s show. It was Bone Crusher. The guy seemed to be laying his whole soul on the line. It was so refreshing after seeing 50 Cent’s passionless performance on Saturday Night Live a few nights before.

A recent Father’s Day edition of Chicago’s “Rolling Out” magazine featured the fatherly advice of Bone to the hip hop community concerning the way to beat media stereotypes about slacker fathers in the African-American community: “The media definitely is going to over exaggerate [negative images] because it’s black folk. That’s just real. Black men are definitely slacking in areas, but a lot of black men aren’t. So, it’s just a situation where those that are doing well, we have to commend them and those who aren’t, we have to help them get to the point where we can commend them. That is what it is all about…It is not a situation where we should be pointing the finger and say, ‘Yo man, you need to be doing that and that.’ You got to show them how to be a father. They may have never been around a man to know how to be a father.” Bone Crusher displays his fatherhood proudly in the magazine with pictures of him and his 5 kids and talk of the importance of giving children opportunities to grow by sending them to camp, ballet and karate classes. Hip hop needs to be reminded of its fathers, as The Roots’ newest album indicates, if it is to sustain what has made it great in the first place.

So maybe this would be a good place to mention some of the great hip hop fathers that some of the *cino listeners have discovered (D.C. Talk does not count, unless you’re talking about the early stuff—“God is doing it, yo who’s doing it?”) Who are some of the hopefuls in hip hop of today and yesterday? Let’s see some lists.

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lopez
Aug 26 2003
04:20 pm

hey space, thanks for the respnse, but it didn’t answer my question.

i’ve heard the roots and enjoyed their sound, but what makes them hip-hop rather than some sort of urbanly informed amalgam of funk and rock music?

is that what hip-hop is? and if so then why all the fanfare? plenty of folks have been making this flavor of music since the 60’s and just calling it rock and roll.

also…
i’ll admit that my taste is for non-computed sounds, but i still believe that this sonic method may soon run it’s course.

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joelspace
Aug 28 2003
08:05 pm

I haven’t heard of Mars ILL before but I’m definitely interested in checking them out. I’ll have to find a high speed connection first though. Is that the same Gotee records that was started by Toby from DC talk?

Any other recomendations?

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joelspace
Aug 28 2003
08:32 pm

I assure you that electronically and digitally manipulated music will be around from here on. Computers and tapemachines are just new instruments to make music with. I would guess that the mechanics of the piano seemed pretty gimicky when it first came out too.

As for your question about The Roots. Everyone is influenced by something. The Roots are influenced by Stevie Wonder, James Brown and Miles Davis. James brown was influenced by Gospel, swing bands and the blues. Its all a big chain. There’s nothing really new.

Hip hop is as revolutionary as it gets though. You should read my article in the archives to get the whole story. What is significant about it is it brought everything back to the beat. DJ’s found the best beats and cut them up and exaggurated them. If you reduce rapping to its musical elements it becomes kind of a vocal percussion solo.

Hip hop is an aquired taste for people who don’t grow up with it. That means you have to study it to understand what the fanfare is about.
I recomend getting an album or few that I recomended in the hip hop article and listening to each of them 5 times. Then make a beat on the computer or have somebody beatbox and write a rap to the beat. Then try freestyling. You don’t have to succeed at any of this but it will help you understand the innerworkings of the music.

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lopez
Aug 29 2003
08:58 pm

i hate to say it space, but you kind of sound like just another white guy who’s in awe of anyone with a sense of rhythm.

i firmly believe that given the time and right equipment i could make a kick ass hip-hop album and it’s not because i’m a great musician. it’s because i have a basic sense of timing and a flair for the dramatic.

have you been watching “making the band:2”? now there’s an eye opener. those people can’t even work together more than an hour without some fisticuffs, but diddy’s their producer and they’ll have a hit record by the fall.

it’s about 50% bravado, 40% style, and 10% talent.

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lopez
Aug 29 2003
09:06 pm

hey space, what issue is your article in? i can’t find it.

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arkitekt
Aug 29 2003
10:20 pm

Those are interesting comments lopez – I think maybe your comments are more reflective of what you see in pop rap/hiphop but the talent involved in what is most respected in the hiphop community really does take a lot more than 10% talent… I mean timing or rhythm is just a portion of it – it’d be interesting to see the results of a “experiment” such as space suggested… there are many elements involved in hiphop… as any music and yes I agree much of the sound comes from music of the past there is no doubting that but it’s grown and developed and is a genre of it’s own now… not to confuse what i’m talking about with someone like p.diddy who pretty much has been successful by recycling not just samples but the whole vibe and feel of a song … that was already popular in the past… this is obviously a different breed.

Whether people are rhyming, producing with instruments or samplers, djing on turntables or cds… these all have intricate parts and some have developed skill and obviously some just plug away… same in the other forms of music as well… I mean if you excell at the craft … there’s a difference than someone who knows a couple basic cords on a guitar and sings along….

I’m really not up to speed at everything in this thread but just thought the last few comments were interesting… having being involved in hiphop for quite a while… producing, djing and even emceeing… years ago… I would love to see those who feel hiphop is not really incorporating much talent to try this experiment… yes style… yes some of the other things involved.. like bravado… but I don’t think it’s much different in other music forms… The type of hiphop that comes from some artists in both the christian and mainstream that truely represent lyricism… would be hard to match in not just the lyrics but delivery, breath control , cadence and flow…. rhythm is definitely part of it but there’s talent even in the area of rhythm…. some have rhythm… some stretch the boundries of that.

Production wise it’s easier to re-create a hiphop sound than to invent or create your own signature sound… where when you hear a beat it’s got a feel that almost definitely speaks of it’s producer…. I haven’t heard Premo’s stuff (from Gangstarr) lately… but I could almost pinpoint a beat from him because of his unique talent for chopping samples and cutting up vocal scratches for the hooks of the songs…

just some thoughts… everyone is free to have an opinion but I love the idea of just putting yourself in their shoes first before talking too much…. especially the freestyling… take a beat you never heard before… and try to make sense and incorporate elements of what’s going on around you into the rhyme without losing the flow and still have solid delivery ….

anyway… for the cat that asked for more links.. space I think it was… there’s a lot of stuff out there… let me know if you like marsill … I might be able to suggest some others … they are part of a crew called Deepspace5… you might like some of the other emcees from the crew.

There’s a next cat named Mark J that has a song City of Pain you might want to peep… you can find him on mp3.com

feel free to hit me up anytime or check out the mag http://www.feedstop.com

Peace,

Arkitekt

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joelspace
Aug 30 2003
06:10 am

Lopez,

I am in awe of anyone who makes great beats. Especially black dudes like Dr. Dre. There is something about Dr. Dre that sets him apart in MTV hip hop. I have a hard time feeling a lot of what P.Diddy and some of those other guys do but whenever a Dre production comes up it hits me right in the gut. The RZA from Wu-tang clan and The Bomb Squad from Public enemy also have unique voices.

I also respect what white dudes bring to the table. Beatmakers like Aphex Twin and Underworld are using a lot of the same gear and techniques but come up with something completely different. There stuff may not groove in the same way as the hip hop guys but it often has a sense of motion and a journey that I am in awe of.

As for your “sense of timing” and “flair for the dramatic”. I agree that with the right equipment you could make a kick ass beat. It might take you a few years of hard work to do something as good as Dre or the RZA but you could do it. Just download Pro Tools free for your PC and start sampling and manipulating kiks, snares, and hats. Dr Dre probably has access to better equipment but I’m sure he could make something just as good on pro tools free.

So back your self up Lopez. Your next post should be an MP3 of your new hip hop track.

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joelspace
Aug 30 2003
04:51 pm

The Hip Hop article is called This Rose Grows From Concrete.
You should be able to find it at:

http://www.cultureisnotoptional.com/issues/article.cfm?issue=21&article=205

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lopez
Aug 30 2003
11:14 pm

thanks to everyone for their informative and well thought-out comments. i believe i’m coming to a more well-rounded view of hip-hop if not more positive.

i think i should just stop listening to interviews, watching live performances or doing anything but appreciating the studio work of these artists because these things seem to do nothing but put me off.

oh yeah space, nice try trying to trick me into becoming a hip hop superstar. i know that if i did produce an amazing piece of groove it would only change your opinion of me not of hip hop.

“bounce wit me, bounce wit me.”
-taken from the song “groove hog” off of the forthcoming debut cd by MC-MEXI a.k.a. christopher lopez

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joelspace
Aug 31 2003
06:16 am

Definitely check out the studio recordings of good Hip Hop. You might enjoy Outkast and The Fugees. Wyclef Jean’s “The Carnival” is really good too. I think a lot of your comments were right when talking about a lot of mainstream hip hop but once you get into the real stuff you’ll realize how much depth there is in this artform.

arkitekt,
Checked out Mars Ill on MP3.com. Great stuff! Its good to hear Christians doing something like this. There is a dangerous element to it that I really like.
Although not as good as Mars Ill, Mark J has an interesting idea of doing hip hop. Sounds like he’s using acoustic instruments? I’ll have to keep an eye out for these guys coming to Chicago.

I was wondering what you thought of Common and NAS. I’m not sure if these guys are committed Christians but their music has a great spirit.